EPISODE 258

How childhood dynamics (and birth order) shape your money today

So much of how we relate to money today was shaped long before we ever earned a dollar.

In this week’s Chill & Prosper, I’m diving into childhood money stories - the subtle, often unspoken experiences that quietly influence how safe, worthy, and capable we feel around money as adults.

This is our final topic in Love and Money month and looks closely at how childhood and family relationships shape our beliefs about love, money, and self-worth.

We talk about:
✨ the impact of divorce, bankruptcy, or financial instability
✨ how birth order can affect responsibility, risk, and self-trust
✨ how over-compensating and under-compensating show up in adulthood
✨ why self-love and compassion are the real keys to healing money patterns
✨ and why siblings from the same family can grow up with wildly different money beliefs

This episode isn’t about blaming your past - it’s about understanding it, so you can choose differently now.

xx Denise

Transcript

Prefer to read?  Here's the transcript of this episode:

Hey there gorgeous, it’s Denise here. And on this week's episode of Chill and Prosper, we're talking about how childhood dynamics can really shape our money stories and our beliefs and all of our sabotages that are happening right here and right now.

And now, if you've been listening to my pod for a while or you're in my money boot camp, you know how much I love money stories. I love hearing people's experiences about money. Everyone's all so different and interesting. And what is really cool is that you can start to, really, like, first of all, you see that everyone's had so many different experiences and they've all led to so many different places, but also how some things really shape us.

And at some point in our life we've made a decision and it can really impact our income later on in life. So I really encourage you during this episode to get curious about your own money stories. And I think what I love about working with the people in our beautiful Money Boot Camp community is that people are really self-aware, and I think most of us are good at seeing the connections in things.

Right. And I think as soon as I chat to anyone about money stuff and we start to go, oh, well, maybe your experiences led to this. You can just see people's light bulbs just go on straight away. And that's why I love working with self-aware, curious people. Because you just go, oh yeah, oh my God. Yes. And you can just see those patterns so easily and clearly.

So of course, when it comes to money sabotages, of course, our earliest experiences around, money, around the idea of business and receiving all of those things do lay the foundation for how we relate to money. And our theme for February is actually love and money, right? And so we've been talking a lot about self-love and, being, you know, really looking at our relationships with money, our relationships with ourselves, having compassion, all of those things.

And I want you to not only love money and have a love affair with money, but also one of the secrets, I think, to so many people, success is having self-love and compassion for yourself. So, if you remember the the the freebie for this month and the theme for this month, we've got a meditation around this self-love meditation.

So if you go to denisedt.com/feb, you'll have access to that. And, I do think, honestly, that is such the key that unlocks so many things is having love for yourself and self-love and compassion for yourself and your stories and your experiences. And that can help you to also learn to love and receive money. Right?

And it doesn't mean you have to be greedy. So let's talk about how, some of the our child experiences in particular impact our ability to have partnerships, right? Partnerships with money, partnerships in business, partnerships in our relationships, and even things like your birth order. This is fascinating, right? Your birth order could absolutely impact the way that you're showing up, in those situations.

Okay. So let's let's talk about it. So, of course, one of the things that I get people to do when they come and join Money Boot Camp is a little bit of an inventory about their past, experiences around money and to kind of start to look for themes. Now we start off very, very general. It's like just what do you remember?

And I have some prompts. What do you remember about this? Blah, blah, blah, blah. But, what we want to do is to dive into some specific experiences and to see how they might be showing up in specific ways. Right. So particularly around things like partnerships. So let's talk a little bit about birth order for a second.

And please this is not a scientific thing. This is again just us being curious and seeing how some of these patterns might be showing up. Okay. So I think, there is a story, a general story that a lot of firstborns are the ones that take on, more responsibility sometimes, maybe sometimes have stricter rules and things like that.

And, that might show up for you and, feeling over responsible for people that could be a thing for you. You might be a middle child, and you always felt left out. All right. That's the classic middle child story. And that might be showing up for you if, like everyone else gets all the opportunities and I always miss out, and that could be playing out again and again for you.

Now, a classic, youngest child being the baby of the family that could be playing out for you in your money as well, right of going. How am I supposed to be responsive with money? I'm the baby. And maybe people treat you like that. Okay, so you could have completely opposite experiences around that. You could have, literally, you could be the firstborn.

And everything was great for you, you know? And this is actually where we start to dive into people's money stories and money experiences. And sometimes siblings can have very different experiences around money. Maybe because your family were in different financial circumstances by the time other kids rolled around. And that could have been going from like, you know, rich to poor, bankruptcy, divorce, or it could have been the other way around that older children had, you know, the kind of slightly more poor, frugal upbringing.

And then your parents had a lucky windfall or, you know, were successful later on in life. And so when we can start to dive into some of those experiences and stories and to see what has that shaped in your life, what decisions have you made about different things? So, let's talk about divorce for a second. You know, if you experienced that, as a kid where there was a massive shift in change in your financial, circumstances, you might have made a very specific decision around that you don't even remember doing.

But it's almost as powerful as if you had taken an energetic vow of poverty or a vow of extreme hyper independence or something. Right. And so oftentimes then it creates a bit of a wind for us. So I've heard from many people whose families have experienced, things like divorce and alimony that they have self-worth issues because they remember their families or their parents arguing about money.

And we know as adults that's often about control and, you know, revenge and all that kind of stuff. But as a kid, we might have internalized that of, well, why are they arguing about what I'm worth? Don't they both want to take care of me? And that can lead to, you know, self-esteem issues, imposter syndrome. But maybe you really struggle to set your prices because you're like, what am I worth?

I'm not worth very much for my own family. Couldn't, you know, help me with that. Now let's talk about something like a bankruptcy in your family. That could have been such a pain point, and it could have been such a story attached to that of, you know. Oh, my family, you know, gambled on a business opportunity or they made stupid decisions.

Okay. So you could go through that exact experience for your siblings. One will inherit the kind of risky gene. One will be so traumatized by the experience, they'll never risk anything, and they'll always be fearful of that. And someone else might not even think about it in your family at all. And so you literally could have the exact same childhood as your siblings and decided very, very different things about it.

Okay. That it is safe or not safe. Now, I remember my stepdad, one of my stepdad growing up, had a few, and he would always say, there's no friends in business and no friends in business. And I, I kind of took that to heart for a long time that I didn't do any, you know, partnerships. I didn't want to, rely on anyone else.

And then there was a time that I did, and I got really, really backed by it. And I just remember that voice in my head of going, oh, there's no friends in business. And was he right? Was he wrong? But you know what? It was for me. I didn't really do a lot of my due diligence, you know, because it was a friendship.

I let go of things like contracts and boundaries and stuff like that. And so the truth is somewhere in between, right? It's like there can be friendships in business, but you should also write contracts and have conversations about it. And I think that decision, it's a very binary thing for me. Right. And there could be a million things that happened in your childhood where you decided that a binary thing I can be wealthy and nice, I can be wealthy and environmentally friendly.

I can be wealthy and a good person. I can be wealthy and happy. I can be wealthy and have love. And when you start to, kind of look at those experiences, right? And you look at what, what were those unspoken rules about money? What were your unspoken rules about what kind of jobs you were allowed to have and what jobs were real and what jobs weren't?

And when you look at that with curiosity, when you start to go, well, that was of its time or two. That was their money experiences and their fears growing up. And I don't want to take those on as truth because I live in a different time. I have different skills and it's okay for me to do something that's different.

So one question to ask yourself as well is what is your role in the family? And this doesn't have anything to do with birth order necessarily. But sometimes we're assigned a role at a really young age. And we we find it hard to break out of that. Okay, so maybe something happened as a kid where you spent all your money on candy, right?

And so you were kind of told again and again, money burns a hole in your pocket, right? And so you don't trust yourself with money, you don't trust yourself. You have no, discernment around what you spend money on. Maybe you are in feast or famine because you're like, well, I've got the money. I may as well, you know, push it away.

Otherwise something bad will happen, I won't I can't be responsible for it. And you're living your whole life as an adult with this one story that happened when you were like six, seven, eight years old. And we often don't know that. We just think this is the way the world is. This is just the way I am. We don't really see those three lines and you can change those at any time now.

Sometimes though, when you change your role in the family, it does not threaten other people, but it can feel a bit discombobulating in a way. And sometimes, families kind of try and keep you in that box and you might say this like actually in practical ways. So maybe you were the baby of the family and you always had to a kids table, and then you go home for Christmas and they're still calling you the baby.

They're still putting you at the kid's table. And that's the sort of stuff sometimes when everyone's conspiring to kind of put you in that role, it can be really tricky to get out of. But also just even this idea of changing your class, like changing where you're going, you know, maybe you're the first person to go to university, maybe you're the first person to be a creative in your family.

And it's kind of going against the grain, and it feels awkward. It feels unsafe, it feels ungrounded, and it's okay, to experiment and grow and change with that. And it's okay to, choose a different identity for yourself, even if other people don't agree. Okay. And that's where I think I always come back to this thing of self-love and acceptance.

So it's like even though I am, you know, even though money does burn a hole in my pocket, I deeply and completely love and accept myself and almost like, transmuting that energy gives you permission to shift and change it and be aware of your patterns. Okay. So next, after this quick break, I want to talk about overcompensating and under compensating and how that can play out in some of your, money sabotages as well.

Okay. Welcome back. So I mean, I love talking about this topic and I actually love when people share their stories with me about their their family life and some of their experiences.

And, I think it's fascinating to, to see where patterns play out in family dynamics. And sometimes it plays out literally in a generation, like every second generation thing. And this where extreme over and under compensation stuff will start to play out. Right. So if you have, a very, very frugal upbringing, sometimes we unknowingly just copy that, sometimes where we go even further and even extreme, more extreme because of the fear, you know, that is implanted in us.

So someone could go really extremely frugal because it could be a badge of honor. And some other people, though, will overcompensate for that and go, I never want to be frugal about anything, so I never want to think about money, and I just want to be free. And so they might go the other way, right? And so never look at money getting to tons of debt.

Always think for today. And that would be an extreme reaction to now. Maybe then you think of their generation and they have kids and they go, oh my God, my, I lived in such feast or famine energy and I felt really unsafe. And so then they're going to be frugal again. And then the pattern plays out. And I think this when you're not aware of your patterns, it's really hard to see where you are overcompensating and under compensating.

And where you're just, you know, continuing those patterns. And for a long time I was like, oh, wow. I've I've been the first woman in my family to go to university and to make money. I've broken the cycle. Right. And what I realized after that, because it was a bit of an arrogant thing, right? Because the women in my family, they did what they could with what they had in terms of information and opportunity of their time.

And so I think of my grandmother, she was very entrepreneurial. You know, she took in sewing, she sewed neutron medics cosmetics, like she was so entrepreneurial. But she lived in a time where, I mean, she probably couldn't get a mortgage by herself. She couldn't get a credit card. She couldn't really work full time at that time with four kids.

You know, she didn't have a university degree or anything like that. So she did what she could. But if she was born now, am I, you know, my age, my opportunity, what would she have done with that? She would have had a YouTube channel teaching people how to sew, making their own wedding dresses. She could paint like. She was incredibly creative.

And then same with my mom. My mom is one of the coolest people you'll ever meet. Like, she, she's so talented at everything she does. So when I was growing up, you know, she she loved reading all the time. She would play, she wrote Trivial Pursuit by herself, so she would take out the cards, she'd write down the answers.

She tests herself. You know, she left school at 16. She had me at 17, basically. And, she can do any craft. So I remember she went through, like, led light phase and then a folk art phase. You can do that. She can play any sport. So, she's like amazing golfer. She plays lawn bowls. She plays darts.

She's she's good at tennis. She's good at pool. She's a massive pool shark. And so again, I was like, oh, look at me. You know, I've made all this money. And I'm like, no, my mom, my God, my mom. She would have bought my time with my opportunities in terms of the internet and, she'd be a billionaire, right?

She'd be Renaissance woman. She's so freaking creative and amazing. And so I think I was like, oh, yeah, I've made all this money. But then I realized, oh my God, I make heaps of sabotaging mistakes with my income as well, right? That my mom would have made with or without money, my nan probably would have made with or without money, and same with me.

And so it really changed my idea of like, what breaking the cycle actually means, because I was overcompensating in some ways too, right? I was like, oh, I made heaps of new money mistakes. I was like, oh, I got all this money. And it wasn't creating like sustainability. I was just making similar mistakes, but just in a different time.

Right? Similar mistakes with different time. And it really kind of humbled me a little bit because I was just like, oh, right, okay, what do I want for my kids and future generations to know about wealth? I don't want it to be the story of like, oh, wow. You know, our great grandmother Denise made all this money, but then her kids didn't know about how to handle money, and then the next kids didn't.

And it just became this story, right? And actually, you know, where this might actually happen in my family. I love dressing up, I love Christmas, I love costumes. And then my little one, Piper, she's so rebellious against it. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to raise kids, I think, who hate Christmas and hate dressing up because they'll just be like, oh, it was so traumatic.

My mom always made us wear matching outfits and she made us costumes, and it was so embarrassing. And they're going to be like Christmas Grinches. And I actually called at Christmas. I called my daughter. My youngest daughter was seven at the time. I called her a Grinch because she wouldn't wear this red dress. I was like, you're such a Grinch.

And then I'm like, oh my God, this is how these childhood patterns play out, right? Because you're always just like, I want the opposite, or you're just unknowingly copying what your family did. So I'm trying not to create an overcompensation around Christmas with my kids. So funny. So that being said, where where are the patterns?

If you could look at your lineage, right. So imagine being in a room with all the portraits of your ancestors. And just like when you go to a museum, a fancy museum, and their life is boiled down to like a couple of sentences, you know, like this was the Earl of blah, blah, blah. He did this and this.

They had a scandal and this, and it's boiled down to like tiny little bits of their life. And you can see those patterns kind of playing out sometimes when you see these big old family trees, you can see tragedy playing out. You can see, you know, mental illness or bankruptcy or you know, whatever it is. And so most of us don't have that opportunity to see that far back and see those patterns.

Because we don't necessarily know, those stories weren't kept or saved, and especially if you came from a lineage of, you know, war or famine or slavery, that history is gone. Right? And so how do you see those patterns playing out and how do you even, yeah. How do you how do you see it, let alone to stop it?

And the good and the bad. Right. So sometimes I think we can do this a little bit, like in a woowoo sense, like literally imagine all of those people who've come before you and like what what commonalities did you share together? What is good and what is bad from that? What do you want to take from that? And if you are having kids or you do have kids, what do you want to continue on?

But what do you want to be your legacy in your community, in your businesses? And how is that? How is that showing up? What pains from the past, and no longer yours to carry? What stories are no longer yours to carry? What cautionary tales can you learn from? What cautionary tales are no longer of the time and you don't have to worry about that.

And where are you holding yourself back for other people's, stories, legacies, money blocks? Yeah, there's some really interesting things. And then, of course, if you're in a relationship, if you're in a marriage, a partnership, then it's not just your history, it's your partner's history as well. And that could be impacting, the partnership you have together.

It could be you could have completely different money stories and different ways of looking at things. And so a great example of this is when, when my husband Mark and I, we got together very young and, we didn't really know how to do money together. You know, his mom was a single mom. My mom was a single mom.

But in a very different way. So I think we had never really seen what partnerships look like with money, how dynamics worked. Because both of our moms are where the where what we saw being the breadwinner. But I think the way, like, his mom created a lot of stability and a lot of overcompensation around food, you know, it's like, we're gonna always have an overflowing cupboard.

And, you know, I'll show my love with food and with my mom. Like, we moved around a lot, and we didn't always have a lot of, you know, abundance of food. And so, of course, when Mark and I got together, we literally had a glass, half empty glass, half full relationship with food, which, to be honest, is just, you know, a symbolism of money, really.

But he would stand in front of the cupboard and you would say, oh, there's nothing to eat. And for me it triggered like the worst feelings of scarcity and fear and poverty in me, because my mom would never say there's nothing to eat. And if the occasional times she did in our childhood I was like, so traumatized by it, right?

And I was like, looking at the cupboard going, there's like 15 different meals in there. And you know, that was when we were first together. But that's played out now even in our relationship, is that I'll be like, why are you buying new versions of that, like use what we have and like it distresses me if we throw out food that's, you know, not part that's past its use by day because we didn't eat it in time.

And it really distresses me because I have those really strong feelings of poverty and instability. And even though, you know, our moms probably earn similar money the way that Mark's mom like it, it felt different to Mark, you know, and I think, it's it's so different to me is like the, you know, the oldest child and my mom was probably a bit younger.

And so think about your, part. If you are in a partnership, when you can have those conversations and be curious about it, it will give you a name and a voice and compassion for some of the things you might argue with around money, around your attitude to spending and saving, around control or surrender, about who does what tasks around money, who wants to look at money and who doesn't.

And it's I think it is fascinating when you see it play out, you know, and seeing it play out where there's very extreme differences. You might have someone who's really, really frugal and but they're so extremely frugal that even just normal things for them look like extravagance and vice versa. Right? You might have someone who's just like, you know, this is our base level of comfort.

It's not that, you know, extreme, but you might have someone who who really, you know, is used to having everything perfect and amazing, but not really wanting to think about how much that costs. Right. And so one of the biggest things that people get divorced over is money. And it's probably because no one ever talks about it, and no one really has those conversations about where these stories have come from and what patterns are playing out.

And if you can do it with with curiosity and compassion, especially if you've already done some of my work and you might be thinking, okay, I really want my partner to read in this book, or I wish my partner would, you know, do the money work or do money boot camp. And you don't have to. I find especially like in and male female partnerships.

I find that I've distilled things to Mark and he's just like going, oh yeah, cool. And I'm like, oh, that's so annoying. He's just like, got it straight away. And I think sometimes they there can be those male female dynamics playing out right around old patriarchal views of who's the breadwinner and who takes care of the money and who has to do those things.

And we're in an age now where you can muddle those up, you know, especially if you're in a same sex relationship, those dynamics might still be playing out and you don't know, you can't be aware of it until you name it and see those patterns. So I highly recommend that you sit down with your partner and just ask a couple of questions.

Not interrogating. It's not a personal development session, but just like, you know, tell me about my money and your family who made money. You know, what did your parents do about different money situations? Because otherwise it can be a real shock. It really can. And then you can you can have compassion for some of the things that you might that might really annoy you because you like, oh, that's just that little version of you.

That's that little kid version of you who made a decision to be safe to do these particular things, but also sometimes they might not literally be aware. And you can see it so clearly in their family and, you know, maybe their siblings or, and you're like, oh, babe, I can see it took about it, took about it.

I think two when two people in a partnership can steer in the same direction, like amazing things can happen. You know, I know when, whenever Mark and I, I've tried to manifest a big goal together without one sabotaging the other. It's just been magic. It's been magic. So don't stress if it's, If it's not perfect and you just you can't understand why have those conversations, you know, and obviously this is something we can help you with in money bootcamp.

We've got a lot of lessons around this about how to talk to your partner, how to deal with negative partner, how to talk to your kids about money and, you know, different habits that you can bring into your family. So you're not the only person who's doing the work. You can do the work together as a family without it being a huge, big thing.

And you know, you kids, if you have kids, your kids are listening, you know, and you might not have kids, but you want to have an abundant life for dogs. That's totally valid too. Okay, so I've got one final thought for you after the break, but hopefully this has been a thought provoking conversation. And don't forget, I've got that free resource for you too about love and money.

So go to denisedt.com/feb and download that meditation and the workbook around it. Because love and self-love and self-compassion is the key. It really is. And you can have compassion for all of your stories for that little version of you. Okay, I've got one final thought for you after the break. See, in a second. It's a juicy one.

Hi, it's the fairy godmother, Robbie Jerram here. I'm a wellbeing writer in the south of England. And host of the Joy of gin podcast. Indonesia's book Chill and Prosper. I especially love doing the exercise. Is your business flowing? In chapter four? It totally transformed my approach to business. When the penny drops that I have permission to shift, quit, tweak or pivot every part of my business to suit me, I discovered I wanted to one host a podcast about Joy and gin and two of the Gin Mindfulness retreats and meet the distiller events.

Going into 2023, my business model now feels so much freer, more joyful and chilled than ever. I recommend to chill and prosper to anyone who wants to craft a delicious and enriching business that's unique to them, like a signature cocktail. Thank you so much, Denise. Okay, my final thought for you is about how, inner child work can really help you to heal your money stories.

Now, I know I have a lot of people listening who they love woowoo things, but they don't always necessarily relate them to money. It feels like, oh my spirit spirituality in my financial life, they have to be so separate because it's dirty and, you know, never the twain shall meet kind of thing. But I did a lot of inner child healing work in my, in my early days of working my money mindset.

And it was so healing. So a couple of things you can do. One is you can buy something for your inner child to, I don't know, just to connect to that inner child part of yourself. And it's not even just about the thing. Sometimes it is. You go, I always wanted this thing and I never got it.

And it became a big story for you. And go buy yourself the thing, right? But sometimes it is more about safety and security and I've read some real powerful things recently about inner child work and about how it really does shift things in the present. And it it does make a difference. And all you have to do sometimes is try it.

And if you're in money boot camp, there is an inner child meditation in in the bonus section. You can go check that out. There's been a couple that I've done where I've kind of invited every age version of myself into a room and being like, I love you. I'm here to take care of you. I'm always here for you.

And it was so healing and so beautiful. But when I bought myself, I think it was like a little Teddy keychain, and it just gave me a talisman to hold on to and to really, every time I held it, I just thought about that smaller version of myself that you know, I was fearful and learned scarcity and, didn't feel safe in the world.

And I would just be like, you know, I love you and I'm here for you. And it just was an amazing touch point. Going back to ballet as well has been a very healing experience for me because even though I loved dance as a kid kid, it was always a real pain pain point about the money in my childhood and being able to now have adult money and go into a dance store and buy myself stuff.

I did overcompensate a little bit. I have a lot of blue leotards and a little blue skirt and a lot of pointe shoes, but it was also very healing in that way, just to connect to the thing that I always loved as a little kid and realizing that, you know, I was always such a beautiful, creative person, even as a very little kid.

And it did get sucked out of me a little bit, you know, and I did feel like, oh, no, I'm a grown up now. And to be able to have my childhood loves again is very healing for my inner child. It really is. So I highly encourage you. It could be something that you never got to do that you always wanted to.

It could be something that you loved and had to give up at a certain point. Or it could be something that, you know, was your passion. You know, it could be even something that, you know, your grandmother always wanted to do. And sometimes those things, you can just do it once and you're like, oh, I'm here. Okay, fine.

I don't need to do that anymore. And sometimes it will just be something that will continue on. And I'm so grateful. I found an adult ballet studio because I was like, oh my God, I can do this for the next 30 years. This is the most exciting thing ever, and it just feels like a full circle moment of healing that.

So yes, we talk about a lot of things today. You know, really looking at your identity that you've pigeonholed yourself into letting go of some of those stories and giving yourself permission, you know, to be compassionate and loving towards yourself. Okay. So that meditation again, it's at dynasty takes on Feb. Feb, obviously it's the month of love because of Valentine's Day, and we thought it'd be a really nice theme to be able to encourage you and inspire you to do some more self-love practices.

And then, yeah, come and join us for Money Bootcamp. We'll be talking about a lot of that love and money stuff this this month on the live call. So the link for that again is denisedt.com/bootcamp might be the perfect time to join and give you some of that gift. Okay, I love you. Love yourself too. And I'll see you on next week's episode, I think.